56' Johnson CD13a 5.5 timing issue

[Silver Blue]

New member! I acquired a mint 56’ Johnson 5.5 (CD 13a) from the next door neighbor. It would not start. The motor was presented to his grandfather when he retired back in 1956 and sat in his basement for over 30 years, then given to the grandson and sat for another 30 years in his garage, never used. Suppose to have >1 hour if any on it. Other than a few nicks here and there, the maroon paint is bright as new. Still has the ivory paint on the prop

Took it home and popped the flywheel off and as expected the coils were in pieces. New coils, plugs, points, condensers, carb rebuilt, and new impeller – it now starts but…

She only starts if the throttle is set to at least half to full throttle. Once running and I reduce the throttle, she dies before getting to the “start” position. The points were set to .022 thousands. I found a method on line to use an ohm meter to detect when the points open and should correspond to the || mark on the flywheel. This shows the timing to be retarded. Eye balling it I would say by 10 to 12 degrees. I tried re gapping the points at .020 and .024 but no change.

Is this my problem and how would I remedy this? The carb/throttle link appears to be adjusted correctly- engaging the flywheel cam at the “start” position. It's as if the tiller linkage is off a tooth but I don't think that would throw off the timing. Also, the Low speed and High speed jets are set to the recommended initial settings, but playing with these doesn’t seem to help either.

Silver Blue

[Joe Reeves]

Re-think a few things..................

Point setting..... Have the fiber rubbing portion of the points aligned with the flywheel key... at that alignment, set the points so that a .020 gauge slides thru but a .022 will not, that'll get you as close to the factory setting as one can get.

The coils... the top portion of the aluminum armature plate what the coils sit upon... there is a slight bevel there. Align the vertical metal portion of the coils so that they align with the top inside bevel which will give you the proper distance from the flywheel magnets.

The timing is set by the flywheel key and there is no full spark adjustment. That is preset at the factory via a powerhead flange and cannot be changed. Have the flywheel key aligned so that the outer flat edge is straight up and down... NOT aligned with the crankshaft taper.
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The carburetor must be absolutely clean.. you'll need to be the judge of your workmanship... migh be a good idea to double check that.

(Carburetor Adjustments - Two Adjustable N/Vs)
(J. Reeves)

Initial settings are: Bottom high speed = seat gently, then open 1 turn out. Top slow speed = seat gently, then open 1-1/2 turns.

Setting the high and low needle valves properly:

NOTE: For engines that DO NOT have a shift selection, obviously there is no NEUTRAL position. Simply lower the rpms to the lowest setting to obtain the low speed needle valve adjustment.

(High Speed) Start engine (it will run pretty rough), shift into forward gear, take up to full throttle. In segments of 1/8 turn, waiting for the engine to respond between turns, start turning in the bottom high speed needle valve. You'll reach a point whereas the engine will either start to die out or spit back (sounds like a mild backfire). At that point, back out the needle valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest setting.

(Low Speed) Slow the engine down to where it just stays running. Shift into neutral. Again in segments of 1/8 turns, start to turn the top needle valve in. Wait a few seconds for the engine to respond. As you turn the valve in, the rpms will increase. Lower the rpms again to where the engine will just stay running. Eventually you'll hit the point where the engine wants to die out or it will spit back. Again, at that point, back out the valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest slow speed setting.

When you have finished the above adjustments, you will have no reason `to move them again unless the carburetor fouls/gums up from sitting, in which case you would be required to remove, clean, and rebuild the carburetor anyway.

[Silver Blue]

Thanks for the quick and thorough answer. I will give these steps a shot tomorrow if it stops raining. Sure hope this works as I just completed a restoration of sorts on a 1964 Lund 14' fishing boat and can't wait to get it out on the lake! The poor boat hasn't seen water almost as long as the motor, last registration was 1996. I will try and post some pics of both soon.
Silver Blue

[Silver Blue]

Joe - I had time to check this out and 2 things... 1st I mis read the point gap cast into the flywheel- thought it said .022 but as you pointed out was actually .020. The 2nd thing was using the "key" as the spot on the cam to line up the points when gapping. Repeated my ohm meter test and both points opened on the mark!! Now she still won't start when in the "start" position but much closer than before. Had to stop for the night but hoping once the high and low speed jets are dialed in this too will fall into place. I sure fill a lot better about that little motor after your input!

[Joe Reeves]

The "Start" position as you mentioned.... if that pertained to the speed setting indicated right at the edge of the throttle grip, disregard it completely. I have no idea why the engine designers ever worded that clip on thing in such a manner. It would have been much better if they simply put "Stop on one edge and "Fast" on the other with a two-way (<-->) arrow between them.

Notice that in neutral, the throttle grip goes only so far (turns)... but when in gear, it turns further? At least that's the way it should work... and if so, as far as it'll go in neutral would be the start position... not that indication on the tiller handle.

However... if the throttle handle goes just as far in neutral as it does when in gear... pick the halfway spot for starting (somewhere in that area).

Re-check the slow & high speed needle valve setting when you feel all else is as it should be. Let us know how it works out for you.

[Silver Blue]

Joe – Worked on this most of the day and about ready to through in the towel. Thought it would be a simple case of adjusting the high and low jets. Still need to have the throttle set medium and full before she fires. But she will only run about 5 to 15 seconds and then die. I can repeat this and get same result over and over. Played with the jets and seems to run a little longer (15 seconds) with the low speed set at ľ turns out.

Two things I noticed… when I pump the tank (still have the original twin hose pressure tank with fresh gas) fuel will come out the carb air intake, and there was a small amount of debris in the glass fuel filter. Reason enough to pull the carb again and go through it. The float needed to be adjusted. The kit included a new plastic float to replace the original cork one. Blew out all the passages again with compressed air. Reassembled and installed. Doesn’t spew fuel out the carb anymore but still will only run 5 – 15 seconds as before.

Interesting your theory on the “start” position on the throttle. The starting instructions, step 4, printed under the pull rope on the cowel says to place the throttle in the “start” position. That and the throttle / timing linkage are supposed to be set so it starts to engage with the cam at the “start” position.

Still feel like I’m missing something basic. Should it matter if the motor is in forward rather then neutral? That was also part of the starting instructions and I may have left it in forward when I installed the flywheel the other day.

Eric (Silver Blue)

[Silver Blue]

I've completed a lot of research on line concerning these old 5.5 Johnson and Evenrudes and kept reading over and over what wonderful little motors these were, run smooth and idle great with minimum basic care, will run forever. Wish my little 5.5 would live up to the legend.
Silver Blue

[Joe Reeves]

I assumed your fuel hose is a two line hose and that the tank is a pressure tank. The tank cap must be completely closed so that the engine can pressurize it so that more fuel will be forced to the engine. Unless that tank is full, it will take quite awhile for the engine to have it pressurized enough to force fuel up to the engine.

Set the slow and high speed needle valves as I instructed and leave them like that until the engine runs steady and constant whereas you can set them properly

[Silver Blue]

New information. I'm totally convinced it's a fuel problem. Decided to rebuild the carb for the 4th time but soak it in carb cleaner overnight. After disconnecting the fuel hose from the carb, thought I'd try it one more time... she started and with-in a few seconds started to rev (still had the throttle in fast position). I was dumbfounded. She ran for about a minute before dying. Continued with removing the carb, tore it down and soaked it overnight. Reassembled this morning after using compressed air to blow out all passages and installed. Same symptoms as before. Then remembering what happened last night, I pulled the fuel line to the carb inlet and she started and revved as before!!!

So now I'm really confused... can too much fuel pressure cause problems like I'm having?

A little background - the 4 gallon pressure take had been completely empty when I added 16 oz of oil then went to fill it up. I intended to watch the pump to put exactly 4 gallons in - mistake - the tank overflowed (on my new paint job and decals I might add) long before the pump reached 4 gallons. So I learned that the tank will not hold 4 gallons and 16 oz the hard way!!! So could maybe this cause the issue of too much pressure, assuming too much pressure is the fault? Or what else could cause too much fuel pressure?

Silver Blue

[Joe Reeves]

A 4 gallon pressure tank?... All of the pressure tanks I've ever encountered going back to 1960 and beyond were 6 gallon pressure tanks. I've never seen a 4 gallon tank!
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However, applying fuel pressure to to the carburetor would have no bearing on how the engine starts... The fact that with the fuel hose disconnected, the engine starts and continues running until it runs out of gas indicates that fuel is entering the crankcase at some point when under pressure.

The two hoses leading from the tank to the engine... Do you by any change have those two hoses reversed? One pumps fuel to the engine... the other pumps air from the engine to the tank.
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[Silver Blue]

Surprised you have not seen a 4 gallon tank before. I have 2 of them, the original that came with the motor and the neighbor had a second one he included. Today I plan to replace the fuel and air lines between the quick connect and motor and also remove some fuel from the tank.

[Silver Blue]

Success at last!! Yesterday I tackled the motor again. It started but would soon die and I noticed fuel leaking out the carb once again. Figured the float needed more adjusting, I pulled the carb. This time the rubber gasket was soft and spongey. In the past I noticed each time I tore it down the 5 screws were loose, at least not as tight as they were when assembled. This time they were loose and the gasket had expanded to the point the holes would not line up. My conclusion is that this rubber gasket was not compatible with the alcohol (E85) in the gas and was dissolving. The float was in spec so I made my own gasket from gasket material I had and put it back together. Now she started right up, the HS and LS NVs responded like they should have to begin with.

Took her out on the lake this morning and did all the fine tuning and she's a happy camper as am I. So it is my belief the float bowel gasket was the culprit all along. Bought the carb kit off ebay, maybe old stock?? One would think a new kit would be compatible with E85 fuel.

Silver Blue